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	<title>Comments on: If only I&#8217;d known</title>
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	<description>Nicky Getgood's ramblings</description>
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		<title>By: Lizzy Piffany</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Lizzy Piffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-40</guid>
		<description>As you know from our private conversations, I felt exactly the same about my first blogging attempts! And let the record show that Nicky Getgood was shit-hot at making me feel comfortable with it, and before that came out with some VERY encouraging and unsolicited praise on my efforts (shame I&#039;ve not managed to maintain the standard, but I&#039;ll keep trying in your honour). I&#039;m still a bit scared of the wider blogging community sometimes - fuck the rules Jon Bounds! Everyone should make up their own! Everyone&#039;s got different takes on things, and laying down rules will always mean at least one person&#039;s take gets labelled as &quot;wrong&quot;. 

BUT this isn&#039;t my absolute standpoint on it. If a wide majority of people don&#039;t like what somebody&#039;s doing (like the ArtsFest twitter thing) then it probably needs to be stopped. In that instance, a clearly defined rule would&#039;ve been helpful to the offending party. But I&#039;m wary of rules since they tend to breed sticklers. Like something that happened to a friend of mine yesterday: his young daughter was denied a pee in a shop where he was well known, because a Nazi had just taken over and was determined to enforce the rule about &quot;employees only in the back room&quot;. 

I&#039;m a new blogger and haven&#039;t come up against any of the unwritten rules yet as far as I know (or maybe it&#039;s just that no one&#039;s reading me blog!), so I might be misunderstanding the kind of rules you&#039;re talking about. Just wanted to chuck in my friendly words of caution just in case you&#039;re not all as reasonable as you sound!

By the way Nicky, I know what you mean about not wanting other writers to sully your baby. My blog&#039;s open to all our group to submit anything they want, and it doesn&#039;t always tally with my idea of what the blog should be. Can I come and write for you instead?!! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you know from our private conversations, I felt exactly the same about my first blogging attempts! And let the record show that Nicky Getgood was shit-hot at making me feel comfortable with it, and before that came out with some VERY encouraging and unsolicited praise on my efforts (shame I&#8217;ve not managed to maintain the standard, but I&#8217;ll keep trying in your honour). I&#8217;m still a bit scared of the wider blogging community sometimes &#8211; fuck the rules Jon Bounds! Everyone should make up their own! Everyone&#8217;s got different takes on things, and laying down rules will always mean at least one person&#8217;s take gets labelled as &#8220;wrong&#8221;. </p>
<p>BUT this isn&#8217;t my absolute standpoint on it. If a wide majority of people don&#8217;t like what somebody&#8217;s doing (like the ArtsFest twitter thing) then it probably needs to be stopped. In that instance, a clearly defined rule would&#8217;ve been helpful to the offending party. But I&#8217;m wary of rules since they tend to breed sticklers. Like something that happened to a friend of mine yesterday: his young daughter was denied a pee in a shop where he was well known, because a Nazi had just taken over and was determined to enforce the rule about &#8220;employees only in the back room&#8221;. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a new blogger and haven&#8217;t come up against any of the unwritten rules yet as far as I know (or maybe it&#8217;s just that no one&#8217;s reading me blog!), so I might be misunderstanding the kind of rules you&#8217;re talking about. Just wanted to chuck in my friendly words of caution just in case you&#8217;re not all as reasonable as you sound!</p>
<p>By the way Nicky, I know what you mean about not wanting other writers to sully your baby. My blog&#8217;s open to all our group to submit anything they want, and it doesn&#8217;t always tally with my idea of what the blog should be. Can I come and write for you instead?!! <img src='http://getgoodguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-33</guid>
		<description>What do you know? You indulge in a spot of vanity surfing at the end of a long, hard day, and you find that people are talking about your nose...
Good post, madam.
W x</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you know? You indulge in a spot of vanity surfing at the end of a long, hard day, and you find that people are talking about your nose&#8230;<br />
Good post, madam.<br />
W x</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Bounds</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Bounds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Perrhaps &quot;etiquette&quot; is the wrong term - it&#039;s certainly one with an unhelpfull history. Online doesn&#039;t, or shouldn&#039;t, have rules - but individual services do and should. Written (in an accesible way) preferably.

For what it&#039;s worth it would be great if &#039;unwritten rules&#039; become written ones - for  the world offline too. Flickr&#039;s Community Guidelines - http://www.flickr.com/guidelines.gne - are fantastic (and according to Heather Champ &quot;our gift to the internet&quot; - that anyone is free to use and adapt) in this respect.

Although they boil down to the old Bill&#039;n&#039;Ted-ism - &quot;be excellent to each other&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perrhaps &#8220;etiquette&#8221; is the wrong term &#8211; it&#8217;s certainly one with an unhelpfull history. Online doesn&#8217;t, or shouldn&#8217;t, have rules &#8211; but individual services do and should. Written (in an accesible way) preferably.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth it would be great if &#8216;unwritten rules&#8217; become written ones &#8211; for  the world offline too. Flickr&#8217;s Community Guidelines &#8211; <a href="http://www.flickr.com/guidelines.gne" rel="nofollow">http://www.flickr.com/guidelines.gne</a> &#8211; are fantastic (and according to Heather Champ &#8220;our gift to the internet&#8221; &#8211; that anyone is free to use and adapt) in this respect.</p>
<p>Although they boil down to the old Bill&#8217;n'Ted-ism &#8211; &#8220;be excellent to each other&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harte</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 11:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-31</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s great to see us having a discussion at this level. We should be aware that we contribute to evolving the etiquette of these forms of communication. With that comes a responsibility towards incusivity and diversity - ensuring &#039;unwritten rules&#039; don&#039;t prevent a widening of participation. Indeed &#039;etiquette&#039;, &#039;good manners&#039;, &#039;common sense&#039;, are really ideas those with power use to keep the disenfranchised on the sidelines.

The truth is that there aren&#039;t any rules; unlike other media forms established rhetorical devices don&#039;t exist - only those who see online as a territory to occupy would think otherwise. That In my view makes this a time of opportunity for those whose voices rarely make it to any form of media outlet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s great to see us having a discussion at this level. We should be aware that we contribute to evolving the etiquette of these forms of communication. With that comes a responsibility towards incusivity and diversity &#8211; ensuring &#8216;unwritten rules&#8217; don&#8217;t prevent a widening of participation. Indeed &#8216;etiquette&#8217;, &#8216;good manners&#8217;, &#8216;common sense&#8217;, are really ideas those with power use to keep the disenfranchised on the sidelines.</p>
<p>The truth is that there aren&#8217;t any rules; unlike other media forms established rhetorical devices don&#8217;t exist &#8211; only those who see online as a territory to occupy would think otherwise. That In my view makes this a time of opportunity for those whose voices rarely make it to any form of media outlet.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicky Getgood</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicky Getgood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the positive feedback people. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a serious culture of playground &#039;ganging up&#039; but the two instances happened to occur shortly after I&#039;d started, which made me wary and unsure because I was feeling my way at that point anyway, and still am if I&#039;m honest.

I think Dave Harte&#039;s point is the most apt - the incidents made me scared of breaking the rules but I wasn&#039;t sure what those rules were because they&#039;re not really laid out anywhere, you just have to pick them up.  So the idea that, if you go against the &#039;etiquette&#039; Bounder refers to, you&#039;ll get criticized when you&#039;re kind of unsure of it anyway makes one very cautious, which may actually be a good thing!

William - I totally see the merits of your model. Whilst my head tells me it&#039;s obviously a great idea my heart says &#039;no - mine, mine, mine, mine, mine!&#039; My gut reaction goes against something that makes perfect sense! Head and heart still fighting like a couple of kids - will let you know the outcome ; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the positive feedback people. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a serious culture of playground &#8216;ganging up&#8217; but the two instances happened to occur shortly after I&#8217;d started, which made me wary and unsure because I was feeling my way at that point anyway, and still am if I&#8217;m honest.</p>
<p>I think Dave Harte&#8217;s point is the most apt &#8211; the incidents made me scared of breaking the rules but I wasn&#8217;t sure what those rules were because they&#8217;re not really laid out anywhere, you just have to pick them up.  So the idea that, if you go against the &#8216;etiquette&#8217; Bounder refers to, you&#8217;ll get criticized when you&#8217;re kind of unsure of it anyway makes one very cautious, which may actually be a good thing!</p>
<p>William &#8211; I totally see the merits of your model. Whilst my head tells me it&#8217;s obviously a great idea my heart says &#8216;no &#8211; mine, mine, mine, mine, mine!&#8217; My gut reaction goes against something that makes perfect sense! Head and heart still fighting like a couple of kids &#8211; will let you know the outcome ; )</p>
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		<title>By: william perrin</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>william perrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-26</guid>
		<description>as we discussed nicky - hold some auditions and build a team.  if you audition it right you can select someone whose voice is complementary to your own.  in kings cross i have about six people who can write for me - about four others do regularly - and i couldn&#039;t do it without them.  having a team allows me to  spend some time to do other things.
and then you would have time to set up digbeth tv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as we discussed nicky &#8211; hold some auditions and build a team.  if you audition it right you can select someone whose voice is complementary to your own.  in kings cross i have about six people who can write for me &#8211; about four others do regularly &#8211; and i couldn&#8217;t do it without them.  having a team allows me to  spend some time to do other things.<br />
and then you would have time to set up digbeth tv</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Booth</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 00:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Sorry If I contributed to making you nervous.  Thanks for reminding me of this, I hear it from other places too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry If I contributed to making you nervous.  Thanks for reminding me of this, I hear it from other places too.</p>
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		<title>By: bounder</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>bounder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Lovely post Nicky, I&#039;m really glad that the community of bloggers around these parts is growing up enough to be able to start to offer help to newcomers. When I started there weren&#039;t really that many people doing it, at least not that I knew of — the networks didn&#039;t exist in the way they do now. I know that going along to the very first Brum Blogger&#039;s meet was scary (I nearly didn&#039;t turn up).

That that network had evolved so quickly and in quite a few directions (the first meet-up was unfeasibly different to how any are now) without any major spats is testament to the general _niceness_ of everyone. I&#039;ve lost count of the conversations I&#039;ve had with people about how to make sure the group feels to the outsider as open as it is in reality — are we getting better at this or not, I&#039;m not sure.

Any form of communication evolves an etiquette, even one as anarchic and short form as twitter, or as free as blogging. In almost any community as long as you&#039;re polite and honest you generally get nothing but positive encouragement and support. The &#039;ganging-up&#039; that you described makes me feel uncomfortable too — it&#039;s notable that these were instances when the person who made the mistake was someone that it wasn&#039;t easy to communicate with.

On the Digbeth blog front you&#039;re doing a sterling job, and the burden-sharing vs. control issue is one that loads of people struggle with. I&#039;ve not got an answer, except just to keep it as something you enjoy. Have fun — you&#039;re not getting paid after all ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lovely post Nicky, I&#8217;m really glad that the community of bloggers around these parts is growing up enough to be able to start to offer help to newcomers. When I started there weren&#8217;t really that many people doing it, at least not that I knew of — the networks didn&#8217;t exist in the way they do now. I know that going along to the very first Brum Blogger&#8217;s meet was scary (I nearly didn&#8217;t turn up).</p>
<p>That that network had evolved so quickly and in quite a few directions (the first meet-up was unfeasibly different to how any are now) without any major spats is testament to the general _niceness_ of everyone. I&#8217;ve lost count of the conversations I&#8217;ve had with people about how to make sure the group feels to the outsider as open as it is in reality — are we getting better at this or not, I&#8217;m not sure.</p>
<p>Any form of communication evolves an etiquette, even one as anarchic and short form as twitter, or as free as blogging. In almost any community as long as you&#8217;re polite and honest you generally get nothing but positive encouragement and support. The &#8216;ganging-up&#8217; that you described makes me feel uncomfortable too — it&#8217;s notable that these were instances when the person who made the mistake was someone that it wasn&#8217;t easy to communicate with.</p>
<p>On the Digbeth blog front you&#8217;re doing a sterling job, and the burden-sharing vs. control issue is one that loads of people struggle with. I&#8217;ve not got an answer, except just to keep it as something you enjoy. Have fun — you&#8217;re not getting paid after all <img src='http://getgoodguide.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Carey</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Nice post Nicky.

It&#039;s a tricky one. I&#039;ve certainly dished out a few opinions and had to fight my corner here and there, but there is a tendency to keep one&#039;s head under the parapet.

I have felt more than a little uncomfortable with what, to me, sometimes feels like a witch hunt in terms of responses to those online faux pas and quite amazed at the level of response.  I think Dave too has a point about how exclusive it all potentially becomes/feels.

Another side is that it potentially means the whole &#039;local blogging community&#039; is viewed as a pack.

Anyway my two penneth - btw I&#039;m enjoying DiG

Charlotte</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post Nicky.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a tricky one. I&#8217;ve certainly dished out a few opinions and had to fight my corner here and there, but there is a tendency to keep one&#8217;s head under the parapet.</p>
<p>I have felt more than a little uncomfortable with what, to me, sometimes feels like a witch hunt in terms of responses to those online faux pas and quite amazed at the level of response.  I think Dave too has a point about how exclusive it all potentially becomes/feels.</p>
<p>Another side is that it potentially means the whole &#8216;local blogging community&#8217; is viewed as a pack.</p>
<p>Anyway my two penneth &#8211; btw I&#8217;m enjoying DiG</p>
<p>Charlotte</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harte</title>
		<link>http://getgoodguide.com/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegetgoodguide.wordpress.com/?p=34#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Great post Nicky, really really interesting. On the second part I kinda know what you mean. It&#039;s about etiquette and language. The Artsfest one is the really interesting example. Who knew that Twitter had etiquette? That came at a time when I&#039;d only just got my own daveharte.com blog going and it kind of terrified me and made me be ultra-careful about how I tweeted and what I wrote.

There is an important point here as many a French or English cultural theorist will tell you power always lies with those who control language. Not understanding or having access to the rules of how to use the language is disempowering and may be a key reason for people not to blog.

I labour this point over and over again in &lt;a href=&quot;http://ash10.com/2008/10/blog-fear-collapse-of-context/#comment-132&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;various blogs&lt;/a&gt; but the greatest barrier to getting more people online isn&#039;t technology, nor is it psychological, but it&#039;s the cultural and class barriers that exist in all forms of media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Nicky, really really interesting. On the second part I kinda know what you mean. It&#8217;s about etiquette and language. The Artsfest one is the really interesting example. Who knew that Twitter had etiquette? That came at a time when I&#8217;d only just got my own daveharte.com blog going and it kind of terrified me and made me be ultra-careful about how I tweeted and what I wrote.</p>
<p>There is an important point here as many a French or English cultural theorist will tell you power always lies with those who control language. Not understanding or having access to the rules of how to use the language is disempowering and may be a key reason for people not to blog.</p>
<p>I labour this point over and over again in <a href="http://ash10.com/2008/10/blog-fear-collapse-of-context/#comment-132" rel="nofollow">various blogs</a> but the greatest barrier to getting more people online isn&#8217;t technology, nor is it psychological, but it&#8217;s the cultural and class barriers that exist in all forms of media.</p>
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